Pagan Step Views

[clovenhoof74]

Now that I have raved on about what I dont like in AA. Now let me ask for experiance strength and hope from pagans working the program. Lets start with step 3. How might others of you have done this step while not subscribing to the christian Idea that our own will is inherently sinful, that anything I can do on my own will be tainted with sin. I suppose when feeling triggered I could turn my will to get drunk over to the deities care. Step 4. Morals? Whose morals? As pagans we don't suscribe to a set list of "rights"and "wrongs". THere does however seen to be a general consences about it. Don't steal, Don't kill unless in self defence, Don't cheat on your spouse(unless your poly). So I'll make a list based on my conscience. Step 6- defects of character,I suppose I can list the destructive behaviours of my past without having to subscribe to the christian doctrin that we are flawed and sinful,evil and separated from "God". I'm not being knit picky,what else is this message board for but to ask for help and voice concerns. Step 11-prayer and meditation yes.Praying ONLY for knowlege of his will and the power to carry that out. My concept of Deity has no Will for me,no divine plan where I'm an actor in It's production. But I can start with making a list of what My deity(s) Will IS NOT. Burning down rainforest. Throwing cigarret butts on the ground. My deity(s) may not want me to drive a car because of the Exhuast fumes. I dont have the answers. So Im asking input/feedback

[AbbyB]

I suggest finding a sponsor and starting with Step One.   

A book that has been helpful to many is The Recovery Spiral.

Also check out some of the posts on this board about step work on various steps. Maybe as you are ready to begin a particular Step, if you have any unanswered questions, post them.

[Peterwolfe]

Abby said it- EXCELLENT suggestions.
I will add ;Stiltskin- 'I feel ya'.......I share a lot of your misgivings.....BUT...I have worked the 'traditional' steps with an AA sponsor ( he was an Atheist) with NO PROBLEM whatsoever...he explained the steps to me- the way he was taught- his take, and explanations worked for me. I didn't have to figure it out or even fully understand EVERYTHING to get started.
He even helped me tweek what was written so I could relate to it- without losing the 'spiirt' of the text.
Remember; 'it works if YOU work it'...........You're doin' great in my opinion.keep it up.......ask questions.......get out your frustrations, confusion. If you don't 'pick up' and keep trying to find what works for you- that's what matters.
Blessed BE,
Peterwolfe
Peterwolfe

[Indigokitty]

Stiltskin,

In one of your recent posts, you said you just fired your sponsor 2 days ago. It's strongly suggested that we go through the steps with a sponsor. Please don't try to do them alone. In nearly 13 years, I've yet to see anyone get and stay sober on their own. Don't worry about the steps ahead of where you're at right now. You're wondering about step 6 when you haven't even gone through 4 yet. The steps are in order for a reason.

When I got sober, they said that when they talk about taking a moral inventory, they don't mean morals as in the Bible. It just means your personal code of ethics. It's about your own relationships with people, how you behaved in those relationships, how they affected and what might have worked better when we 'screwed up'.

No where in step 3 does it mention anything about sin. It only says that we've made a decision to turn our will and our lives over....That doesn't mean you don't have a will of your own. It means that you are trying to align you own will according to what you feel in your own heart is what your HP wants for you. I know what mine wants for me be listening to that nagging feeling in my heart. My heart is where I know what I should and shouldn't do. It's what the right and wrong things are for you. That is not necessarily the same for you as it is for anyone else.


"How might others of you have done this step while not subscribing to the christian Idea that our own will is inherently sinful,"

There is no place in the Big Book that states that our own will is inherently sinful. What it says is that we have abused our own will power, not used it properly. 'Properly' does not mean sinful. It refers to things we did as practicing alcoholics/addicts that hurt us and those around us. Things like taking advantage of family and friends, lying to them and ourselves. For me, the 3rd step means that I'm asking my higher power to help me NOT do those things. When I do the things that I believe are in my HP's will for me, I feel a lot better and my life goes a lot better. My HP helps me realize what I can do with my life to make it better. It just means we are asking a power greater than ourselves to help us live in such a way that we can be happy. As alcoholics, we generally have a hard time doing that on our own. It's hard if not impossible to truly do this if you haven't really worked the first two steps.

[pattimint]

Stilskin,

wow!  I'm just eshausted after reading your post!  I think Abby probably had one of the best suggestions:  Start with step one.  

This is just my observation and you can take it, leave it, or "smite" me... whatever... what I hear is someone who is very defiant and making this much more difficult than it has to be.  Just start at the beginning and it will come to you.  I just see myself in you in so many ways and others, "old timers" if you will, kept telling me that I was making things way more complicated than it had to be.  I didn't want to take their advice, for reasons I can't even figure out now, but when I did start taking the suggestions that were offered as the gifts they were meant to be, things started getting easier and answers began presenting themselves to me.

I just received the book Recovery Spiral earlier this week and I've already found it to be helpful.  

Take a deep breath and, please, slow down.  I too am looking for a sponsor and can identify with your frustration.  I've had a few that have not worked out, but I'm sure there is someone who will.  A lady told me that she went through 6 in a year till she found the right sponsor for her, but she thought it very important to just have that person that she could check in with and could keep her working on her steps no matter what.  If one didn't work out she would just ask another and right away.

I feel your troubles and just want you to know that it really doesn't have to be this hard.  Some days I had to take it one breath at at time.  I don't know if any of this helps, but you may want to check out the thread "Todays meditations" in "Came to Believe", you may find some of the posts in there useful...

[dakota]

I ditto working with a sponsor.  This is my third time through recovery and the only difference is I've kept a sponsor and worked all the steps.  I did what my sponsor suggested, I even prayed, went through the motions, however I didn't pray to the Christian God. I prayed to what my understanding was at that time, which has changed and grown.  I've worked hard to take the God out and see the steps for what they are. I believe they are valuable.  For me I work them differently. Instead of praying while on the road with drivers(people who don't go the speed limit) I talk through it. I look inside, search my inner spirit, and eventually(sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly) I come to realize they don't control how I feel I do. There driving doesn't have the power to ruin my moment or my day, I do.  I let it go because it's really not that big of a deal. Just an example.